(I am not here to pick a doctrinal fight but just to bring up some genuine questions I have. So please take this as such.)
I’ve been around many in this world but am not of the Calvinist mindset that prevails, being unconvinced by years of reading Calvinist authors alongside regular through-the-Bible reading for 30 years. (Though until recently I had been Complementarian in doctrine but not in marital practice, my eyes only opened as I saw the rotten fruit of it as practiced in failing marriages around me and the good fruit of marriages practicing loving mutuality, like my own.)
With that as background, here’s the question I’ve been mulling around:
Is it the very idea inherent in God as “Sovereign” in Calvinism that leads to some of the bad fruit we are seeing? (Obviously He is sovereign because everything that is comes from Him and is held together by Him.)
Does thinking of God as always displaying His power lead to men in power doing the same towards those beneath them? (I see God often not displaying all His power and glory so that He can condescend to be with humans in relationship.)
Is hierarchy the natural outflow of majoring on God’s Sovereignty? And does not hierarchy as important structure for us to follow lead to the “haves” over the “have nots”? Is not such power a temptation to greedy people? And is that why we see these with power using it in harmful ways?
But do we see Jesus majoring on God’s sovereignty? Or rather do we see Him showing us something very different? And what is that?
I see Him turning power on its head and showing us the idea of laying down our power for the sake of those others who are without it. Jesus did this as our example and calls us to the same self-sacrificing love.
That is missing from so much of the writing in the YRR circles. I can’t see how Calvinism as a worldview isn’t the underlying basis for that.
Please know, I am not here to fight about the doctrine itself. I’ve read plenty on both sides…but I do have these questions. Thanks for considering. 💜🙏🏻
Excellent summary. My evangelical bona fides and faith journey very similar to yours. I think Piper and Keller were two tragic figures associated with this movement. Great preachers and humble men (from whose teaching I have nevertheless distanced myself at this point), both allied with cartoonish reformed bro cretins.
I’ll add on my two cents—as a gay Christian trying to parse out his own beliefs on sexuality and gay marriage and gender (and…the list is infinite it seems) it feels like a lot of the worst takes about sexuality and “gayness” are coming from the YRR world. The PCA decided a couple years ago that my self description used in the first sentence—“gay Christian”—is enough to ban me from holding a teaching position in the PCA. It’s laughable.
Sobering, and convicting. Yet within the PCA, where I’ve been and where I am, I find much to celebrate. Not “net” but a whole positive amid the chaos of life: Christ, and Christ alone.
(I am not here to pick a doctrinal fight but just to bring up some genuine questions I have. So please take this as such.)
I’ve been around many in this world but am not of the Calvinist mindset that prevails, being unconvinced by years of reading Calvinist authors alongside regular through-the-Bible reading for 30 years. (Though until recently I had been Complementarian in doctrine but not in marital practice, my eyes only opened as I saw the rotten fruit of it as practiced in failing marriages around me and the good fruit of marriages practicing loving mutuality, like my own.)
With that as background, here’s the question I’ve been mulling around:
Is it the very idea inherent in God as “Sovereign” in Calvinism that leads to some of the bad fruit we are seeing? (Obviously He is sovereign because everything that is comes from Him and is held together by Him.)
Does thinking of God as always displaying His power lead to men in power doing the same towards those beneath them? (I see God often not displaying all His power and glory so that He can condescend to be with humans in relationship.)
Is hierarchy the natural outflow of majoring on God’s Sovereignty? And does not hierarchy as important structure for us to follow lead to the “haves” over the “have nots”? Is not such power a temptation to greedy people? And is that why we see these with power using it in harmful ways?
But do we see Jesus majoring on God’s sovereignty? Or rather do we see Him showing us something very different? And what is that?
I see Him turning power on its head and showing us the idea of laying down our power for the sake of those others who are without it. Jesus did this as our example and calls us to the same self-sacrificing love.
That is missing from so much of the writing in the YRR circles. I can’t see how Calvinism as a worldview isn’t the underlying basis for that.
Please know, I am not here to fight about the doctrine itself. I’ve read plenty on both sides…but I do have these questions. Thanks for considering. 💜🙏🏻
A lot of your questions I answer in this post
https://open.substack.com/pub/jaymallow/p/why-most-religious-authority-isnt?r=f586t&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
And this one
https://open.substack.com/pub/jaymallow/p/authoritarianism-and-truth?r=f586t&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Hope that helps
Thanks for reading
Excellent summary. My evangelical bona fides and faith journey very similar to yours. I think Piper and Keller were two tragic figures associated with this movement. Great preachers and humble men (from whose teaching I have nevertheless distanced myself at this point), both allied with cartoonish reformed bro cretins.
I’ll add on my two cents—as a gay Christian trying to parse out his own beliefs on sexuality and gay marriage and gender (and…the list is infinite it seems) it feels like a lot of the worst takes about sexuality and “gayness” are coming from the YRR world. The PCA decided a couple years ago that my self description used in the first sentence—“gay Christian”—is enough to ban me from holding a teaching position in the PCA. It’s laughable.
Sobering, and convicting. Yet within the PCA, where I’ve been and where I am, I find much to celebrate. Not “net” but a whole positive amid the chaos of life: Christ, and Christ alone.
Thanks – as a neighbor but outsider to the movement, I wondered, "is it just me, am I just noticing the bad stuff?".
But at least I don't think it's just me after this summation. Lots to mourn here.
Glad I could help and thanks for reading.
? World mag in here somewhere too tho that wasn’t just reformed idk 🤷🏻♀️
I mean Mohler taking over and his puppet “ethics professor” pushing everything towards Trump/CN till now it’s too toxic seems to be the story there.
Well said, Jay. Excellent summary.
Thanks man! And thanks for reading.